Take it off! See. Love. Grow.
An unfulfilled life has less to do with what it is - and more with how you see it. Your fulfillment is often on the other side of a tough decision or conversation. It is in the resolving of conflict and the releasing of self-judgment that we grow the most. So, if you feel stuck in your career, relationships, or how you think about yourself, it’s time to “TAKE IT OFF” and show up as your authentic self. Joshua A. Fields and Jeremy Rubin co-host the “Take it Off” Podcast. As a master practitioner of the Energy Leadership Index with 15 years of executive leadership experience at a Fortune 10 company, Certified Executive Coach Joshua Fields has a proven track record of creating high-performing teams and environments for personal transformation. Renowned author, speaker, and founder of FACE Consulting, Jeremy Rubin, immediately impacts groups large and small using humor, personal stories, and practical, result-driven applications. These two have brought unique life experiences, skill sets, and energy to create an experience like no other. The mission is simple but not easy. It is to empower people with the skills to see and accept themselves and others clearly and without judgment to live a more authentic life. So, if you’re ready to live with purpose and curiosity and to get clear on what you want for your life, join us weekly at the “Take it Off” Podcast. Some concepts are based on and inspired by the coach training program Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching (iPEC).
Take it off! See. Love. Grow.
Let's Talk About Sex: Embracing Sexual Authenticity
What if the key to deep, fulfilling relationships lies in embracing your true desires without shame? On this episode of the Take it Off podcast, See Love Grow, I'm joined by the remarkable Shaniqua Sheila Anderson, a Black queer therapist with over 25 years of experience. From her roots in the Chelsea housing projects to becoming a beacon of hope and wisdom in the therapeutic community, Shaniqua shares her profound insights on sexual pleasure, clear communication, and the transformative power of addressing intergenerational trauma. Together, we explore how being honest about your desires can vastly improve your intimate relationships.
Listen as we navigate the complex landscape of child welfare, substance abuse, and human sexuality, drawing from real-life scenarios to highlight how these elements are deeply interconnected. We discuss the challenges of addressing sexual health and consent in environments where survival sex, sex work, and domestic issues are prevalent. Through these discussions, we emphasize the critical role of understanding human sexuality comprehensively to ensure the safety and well-being of children and families. The dialogue underscores the necessity of open, honest conversations to break down barriers to sexual freedom and emotional well-being.
Our conversation also touches on overcoming societal taboos and internalized shame to achieve sexual authenticity. We delve into the internal conflicts that arise from cultural and religious norms, stressing the importance of creating space for new possibilities in relationships. Shaniqua and I explore the power of maintaining a joyful and positive mindset, as it enhances creativity and our contributions to the world. This episode is a heartfelt journey into understanding and fulfilling one's sexual and emotional needs, and offers invaluable insights for anyone looking to foster genuine self-expression and healthier, more fulfilling relationships.
because we think we're connecting and it feels really different when you connect, when you're actually in your body and actually able to say you know, this is what I want. I want you to touch me here like this for this long. Do not stop. That is a different, do not stop that is a very different level of prowess and ownership of the product space hey everyone.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Take it Off podcast, see Love Grow, where we strip away the layers and dive into real conversations about being authentically human. The layers and dive into real conversations about being authentically human. I'm your co-host, joshua Fields, and I am currently in Toronto, colombia, hosting a retreat called the Hero's Journey with another coach and good friend of mine, michael Mottari. But before we start today's episode, I wanted to get this out, but you will notice that my co-host, jeremy Rubin, won't be on this new season. Jeremy's taken an extended break to focus on important writing projects and real estate ventures. I want to be clear Jeremy's presence will be missed. He's my brother, mi hermano, and I fully support his need to chase his dreams with more clarity and focus. We are better because he is better. I love my dude.
Speaker 2:Anyways, with that said, today's episode is titled let's Talk About Sex. Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about you and me. You know I had to get my song in there and we're getting real with this particular topic about the complexities, joys, fears and misunderstandings surrounding sex. This isn't just about the physical act. It's about connecting, communicating and building intimacy with ourselves and others. To help us explore this, I've invited my therapist, shaniqua Sheila Anderson to join us. Shaniqua has deep insights into sexual intimacy, boundaries and self-discovery. Please listen in to this thought-provoking episode and conversation. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Take it Off podcast. See love grow. This is episode 53, and we are talking about sex Watch out.
Speaker 2:Now that lovely feminine chuckle in the background.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1:That was me.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes. And who is me? I want to introduce you all to someone that has played a major role in my life, to someone that has played a major role in my life, supporting my wife and I as we navigate a litany of things that come with being partnered and married. She is my therapist, as well as my family's therapist. Here's a brief introduction on who this powerful person is.
Speaker 2:Shaniqua Sheila Anderson is a Black queer native of Chelsea, new York, with over 25 years of experience in crisis management, psychotherapy and advocacy. As a sex therapist and intergenerational trauma interventionist, shaniqua's work spans from promoting sexual pleasure and embodiment to addressing complex trauma. She's lectured at Columbia University and other institutions, focusing on decolonializing social work and human sexuality. Shaniqua is also the co-creator of PhotoSafe, a nonprofit preserving the history of children in foster care. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're dealing with heavyweight y'all. With a master's in public administration and social work and extensive clinical expertise, shaniqua is dedicated to empowering others to live boldly and authentically. Y'all know that's already speaking to me. Has written a number, a number of research articles, but specifically has written a dissertation on the intergenerational impact of enslavement on the sex, love and intimate lives of black folks. Ladies and gentlemen, I know the crowd's going wild out there. I know I can't see you, but I know you're going like what's today. She's talking to us. I know, I know y'all this is beautiful, um, so shaniqua before we even get into all the things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how are you?
Speaker 1:I am doing well, I am I, I. I know that's my bio, but it's like it's a lot to hear it. First of all, I feel like I'm a nap because black people need rest, but also I am. I think there's there's something that happens when I hear um, my whole like history back and it's like it's 25 years of the 43 I've been on this planet. But it's pretty moving to like hear your accomplishments come through the body of someone else.
Speaker 1:Um so I also like in this moment really move, like I did that shit, you know yeah, also that, like I did yeah, I don't know if I don't know if testing is allowed on your podcast but that is my the more the better my, my original, like damn, I did that you know
Speaker 2:and you're doing it, and you're still doing that. Like this morning in the midst of it.
Speaker 1:And I'm doing. I was doing it at 7 am today.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine doing anything else with my life. I feel really in this moment I'm really grateful that I get to talk to you about my work. I am really grateful that I get to just do the work that I do. I feel like it's a privilege. It's not a job, it's a. You know, I get to be front row in people's lives every day and they trust me and they invite me in and I think that that is very special. I do not take it for granted, but also like damn, I did that. I came out of a housing projects in Chelsea. You know, like I did that and and I'm doing that and I kept. I made, I made promises to myself that I kept and I feel really grateful that I was able to do that, because it wasn't always easy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for unfolding and and being here and being present. We're not for everybody.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:But we are for somebody, and being able to just share what sounds like a lot of commitment and discipline and, ultimately, self-care, protecting your boundaries for being able to persevere and push through, it's inspiring. So it is a it's a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:It's a pleasure to be here and to offer.
Speaker 1:Whatever is meant for us to talk about today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know the back to the title. You know, I think about the salt and pepper song. Let's talk about sex. Baby, are you familiar with that group? I don't know. You said you're 43, but did you listen to hip hop? Are?
Speaker 1:you like, so academic that you don't Sit down. My father is a hip hop pioneer. Okay, I am hip hop, oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 2:A family member just showed up.
Speaker 1:This is just a family member just showed up.
Speaker 3:This is just a family member sitting down, don't let the accolades and the astonishment stop you.
Speaker 2:She's familiar with the culture. She is the culture.
Speaker 1:My father is born and raised in Edelwald Projects and is one of the hip hop pioneers. But yes, I'm very familiar with hip hop.
Speaker 3:Okay, All right, yes, I'm very familiar with Salt-N-Pepa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you've got range. Yeah, you got range, you're not. You're not as stiff academic no, no, I'm not an.
Speaker 1:I'm not an academic. I have academic degrees, right, but I have depth and breadth and most of what I learned I learned in crack houses and on people's stoops, you know, in park benches and basketball and shooting galleries. I did not learn it at school. I went to school, so I didn't go to jail, ok.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what it? Is OK.
Speaker 1:Because you can pick an institution, and so I picked school.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. Uh, that clarity you can you have the choice to pick where you're institutionalized, because you will most likely be institutionalized somewhere?
Speaker 1:I'm black and queer. Yeah, I ran away from home at 14. There was not. You know there's not. You don't get a lot of options.
Speaker 3:You know I was in New.
Speaker 1:York City. I grew up poor. You know, just because my dad was a hip-hop pioneer did not mean that we were wealthy, we know how the? Military works. My mother had a public service job civil service job. You know, like you know, no one in my family went to school until much later in life.
Speaker 1:Right this is a second generation thing, not a first generation thing. And so I, you know, left a very, you know, debilitating set of circumstances. Impulsively and I had to figure it out and so intuitively, I picked school as the designated institution that I was going to be in. But that does not mean that I don't know my stuff from my butt, I don't know my stuff from hip hop from the street. Like academia is the house that I chose to sit in. It is not the philosophy that has taught me how to know people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:People sit with people and I relate to humans, not theories, so that's just important as we're having the conversation.
Speaker 2:Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people place.
Speaker 2:I'm not coming at it from some philosophical framework that came from Freud, who was doing cocaine and sniffing stockings cocaine and sniffing stockings no, okay so, as we get on topic, and I think about just the history you have shared about yourself, what, what specific, what interests you about sex? I know it's vague, but within it's not vague.
Speaker 1:It's not vague. I mean, here's the deal. I worked in child welfare when I was 18 years old and my primary responsibility in child welfare was helping people who were dealing with whether it was chronic psychological stuff that was going on with them that was intersecting with a drug and alcohol dependency. I was helping those particular folks who were uniquely impacted by drugs and alcohol and maybe co-occurring other psychological conditions to know where their children were when they were removed from them and be reunited with them. So my primary focus was to find those parents, help them to figure out how they were going to get well enough to be back in the lives of their children.
Speaker 1:And what I learned very quickly is you don't do any child welfare work right. You don't do work with people's families and children without also having to be deeply involved more than you realize in their sex lives, more than you realize in their relationships, right. You don't do work with people around chemical dependency and substance abuse without being deeply involved in people's sex lives, right, Whether it's the sex that they're having for survival, whether it's the sex that they're having to exchange for drugs and alcohol, whether it's the sex that they're having results exchange for drugs and alcohol, whether it's the sex that they're having that results in them having children that then the state will take away from them.
Speaker 1:You end up being deeply, deeply involved in people's sex lives. It's not always conscious, it's not always the place that you think that you're going to go, but it ends up being a very significant topic that you're involved in around sexual health and well-being, around safer sex, around consent, around sex work, all kinds of things. And so I was just intuitively and instinctively very comfortable having very deeply hard conversations with folks that other people my peers and my colleagues, even colleagues that were way older than me I was comfortable having conversations with folks that other people weren't, and so the organization that I worked for noticed that and they would call me in to have hard conversations with people because I was the one that was comfortable to do it and I was the one that people would answer and respond to and I was the one that was able to connect. So I was one of the primary folks that was talking to people about their intimate lives, about their gender, about different kinks and sexual behavior, trying to differentiate Is this kink or is this domestic violence? Is this a problem that?
Speaker 1:is a safety issue in this household, or is this a practice that we need to do a better job at? Like actually like, yes, that's your private business, but also like are you exposing your children to things that are unsafe, you know? Like making those kinds of assessments with information and an understanding that you know we need to be much more comfortable being able to talk about human sexuality as opposed to well, we're just tracking for these issues over here and making sure that people are well, but we're acting like they're not sexual beings. I think that that dissociation, that compartmentalization, is actually dangerous, and so I went and had the conversations that were hard, and so I like to think of it that I wasn't interested in sex. I was interested in fully expressed human beings and their safety and well-being, and sex is a part of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Can you share, obviously, any example that comes up that feels comfortable to share here, an example of what that looked like with the story, something that we could, that the audience could connect to around what you've described oh it's.
Speaker 1:You know it's a little hard because you know I'm a clinician and yeah, yeah, that's why I'm I um, I appreciate you framing it the way you framed it, and also I'm a Christian, so I'm also I'm very protective of people's identity. So here's what I can do. Right, I'm not going to tell a story, I'm going to tell you some scenarios.
Speaker 2:Please Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1:So some scenarios you know I work with historically. I have worked with women who do sex work, who are also dealing with crack, cocaine, addiction. You know I've worked with folks who, when I started doing my job, people were still dying from AIDS, right, that wasn't, it wasn't a a medical experience that you lived through. I sat at the bed side of many people who actually died from AIDS, from full-blown AIDS, right. And so folks that are HIV positive, dealing with their own, like you know, reestablishing their sensual and sexual and intimate connections, and this is before the ages of pep and prep. I've worked with people who have, without disclosing, like very, I would say, expansive intimate sex lives that are in the like S&M and even expanded S&M culture that you know. They come outside with a lot of markings on them, a lot of physical marks, and people are like well, what is that Right? Is that their play or are they actually like in a physically violent relationship and how?
Speaker 1:do we ask questions about that respectfully, but also assess if there's something, if there's a power dynamic issue here. You know I've worked with cisgender men that engage in all kinds of different ways that they're using cocaine to deal with erectile experiences and if, is that a part of your addiction or is that a part of your ability for your genitals to function Like what's going on here, you know, like really the part part? What is the the thing that's happening around sexual expression versus what's chemical dependency versus what's an internalized tension that you're sitting in because of the ways that you are ashamed of your sexual thoughts, feelings and desires. Like I'm, I was responsible for teasing all of that out, um, while also thinking about the safety and well-being of children yeah thank you, thank you for grounding us um something you said, um.
Speaker 2:You said it early on and I think this, this question, this pre-prepared question, I think, helps capture this um what does it mean to be sexually authentic? Why is freedom of sexual authenticity important for one's overall well-being?
Speaker 1:You know I feel like so. There's a few things that come up when I hear the word authenticity. You know I hear a couple different things right, it's like what's real and true for you, right. Right, it's like what's real and true for you, right? And I think sometimes, when I hear the word authenticity, sometimes I think people bristle at that, where I don't personally, but I think that's something. So one because we start, we get terms in the zeitgeist.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And then we start seeing them over and over again. But I think sometimes people think about authenticity and bristle a little bit because authenticity for some reason is, is over, coupled with you can't change Right. What's authentic to me in this moment is what's authentic to me in this moment. It doesn't mean that tomorrow there might not be some other aspect of my personhood, my identity, my felt sense that will shift and be maybe very different from how.
Speaker 1:I'm feeling in this moment, or how I'm presenting what's authentic to me in this moment and that's not also authentic, right, and so I'm using this word with a lot of elasticity, right, it's true for you in the moment. Right, and I think that around the topic of sex, love and intimacy, having some level of authenticity, some level of embodiment, is your one of the many pathways to pleasure, right? What do you actually want? What do you want to be doing in this moment? How do you want to bring pleasure to your beloved or beloved? How do you want to receive pleasure from your beloved or beloved? It's like, what does that look like and feel like? And really like being able to know that, so that you can go after that, so that you can perform. That, I think, is an area of artistic expression, creative expression, spiritual fulfillment, emotional. Just why are we so?
Speaker 2:impressed by that. Why? Why can't people just go do that? Because tell me, yeah, why can't we just go be expressed?
Speaker 1:Because we're dissociated.
Speaker 2:Tell me more. What do you know?
Speaker 1:what the word dissociated means. I hear disconnected, right, we're not always in our bodies, right, and we're not always in our bodies. One my research topic, which we're not going to get into unless it's necessary, because it's very convoluted and complicated, right, and it will take us away from this conversation, but we have ancestral trauma that fundamentally disconnected us from our bodies. If we are black folks on this land with enslavement history, right, but we're not the only people that have been subjugated in history, right, but we're not the only people that have been subjugated in history, ok. And so if you think about any dispossessed communities, people that are dealing with colonial stress, other genocides beyond enslavement, right, indigenous folks, you inherently are asked to be disconnected from your body.
Speaker 1:That is what those kind, that kind of violence, does, right, and if you're not in your body, how can you know what your body needs, wants and desires? You can't know, you don't even know to ask because you don't even realize you're in there. Dissociation you don't even always know that you're not in there. That's the whole point. That you can function and not know, right, that you're not fully in there, right, and so I really work with people to be in there, like really be in your body right and actually endure the discomfort of desire right, because the desire and have longing is uncomfortable for people. Because what if I have all this desire and longing and I can't get my need met? What if I have all this comfort and desire but society and all of the taboos and the things that I'm not supposed to want? What if I want those things right and even harder? What if I get them and I don't know what to do with them?
Speaker 2:What if?
Speaker 1:someone says yes to me? Right, and so it's really working through some of that discomfort and fear and nervousness, right. What if I never get what I want? But what if I can get what I want Because I watch people struggle in both of those places? Right, but the first what, like pass at this. The first intervention is to actually become more comfortable and have being in your body, be a hospitable environment. Right, so that you can actually connect, because we think we're connecting and it feels really different when you connect, when you're actually in your body and actually able to say you know, this is what I want, I want you to touch me here like this for this long. Do not stop.
Speaker 1:That is a different, do not stop do not stop. That is a very different level of like, prowess and ownership product space right and feeling emboldened to do that and feeling that you have the right to do that, that that is a space that you and your lover can play right, is very different than what we feel we are entitled to and what we feel free to go after, because all this other shame and guilt and judgment and taboo, it's wrong, it's sinful, like we just have a lot of dogma to get through before we can actually just be in our bodies and be human.
Speaker 2:How do you? No, you're getting. Yeah, we're getting there. We're getting there. I think, about people that are in. You know, a lot of our status quo relationships. Things are, you know, a lot of our status quo relationships. Things are, you know, exclusively monogamous. Or there's a traditional doctrine from our religious communities that inform what's okay and what's not, so what's not okay before we can even get to being in our body and being present there. How do you, how would one find ways to explore what you're talking about, given, I think for the most of us, you grew up in America, you watch a Disney movie or two and there's one prescribed way on how to be relationally, does that question make sense? How do you help us navigate through that, given all this, all these layerings?
Speaker 1:Yeah, your question makes sense. It's a lot of questions in one but, I, think that it's a lot of questions.
Speaker 2:You can help me decolonize my question.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, it's not colonialized, it's not like a colonial framework. Would not even ask that. A colonial framework would say this is what it is and we don't think outside of that right okay, so this is not about decolonial. This is, I think, your question is is um, there's a lot of questions layered in one, because that's how sex works one.
Speaker 1:There's just a lot going on there's a lot there's a lot in the space when we're talking about sex one. So that's why we have these big questions. And also there's a lot bearing on what you know is conventional, right, like you're you're talking about, like religious dogma, you're talking about the political climate. We're supposed to have a separation of church and state, but do we really no right? And so there's just a lot on there. There's also media, right. There's also people's personal taboos. That's so. There's just a lot on there. There's also media right. There's also people's personal taboos. That's why there's so much in that question. You talked about Disney, you talked about God, you talked about the law.
Speaker 2:Right, right Right. Thank you, help me out now.
Speaker 1:Thank, you what, what I, what I do typically right and then I don't. I don't have one way of working with people I'm not like. Well, I use this method and this is the. I know a lot of spiritual philosophies. I just I know a lot of things, and so I learn a lot of things from the people I work with and I use what, what makes sense for them, which is just getting to know them and relating to them, without a bunch of stories about how they're supposed to be Right. And so my primary starting point is to not assume that there is a right way or a wrong way to be in relationship with people Right, beyond having consenting adults, because those are that's who I'm having these kinds of conversations with, right.
Speaker 1:There's not a right way or wrong way to be. You know, and I start from that premise and I don't start from the premise that, oh, there's all of this religious dogma and I have to negate it. I start from the premise that there's all of this religious dogma. What's your relationship with it? How do you feel about it? It's not how I feel about it, it's how are you relating to it? How much of it do you believe and how much of it is dictating what you feel you should and shouldn't be doing? I'm just curious with people about the ways that certain rules or boundaries or frameworks, if those frameworks are oppressing people, or if those frameworks are allowing folks to live their lives in a way that feels grounded and feels peaceful, right. But you can't tell me a whole bunch of things that you should be doing, and then you have chaos, right? Something about that is not sitting well with you and do you want to do something about it? And some people do and some people don't. But I really just start with getting a sense and an understanding of the, the frameworks and the philosophies that people are using to guide their life and see if, if it's peaceful in there, if that is a framework that is helping you to guide your life yeah, yeah
Speaker 2:the word that comes up for me when we start talking about the components of exploration and embracing one's sexual desires Fear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just. I just got off the phone talking. I'm terrified. I just did that at 7 am.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, what. What's that gonna mean for who I am? What's that gonna mean for my current relationship status? Um, my partner or partners don't meet me where I want to be met. What does that mean? Because we didn't build this and that, uh, I'll just continue to shrink and stay small here and not even investigate what it means to embrace my authentic sexual self. How do you support people navigating those type of fears where there might be a desire, but you know what it's not even worth it. What's in it?
Speaker 2:What's in it for us to go there.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know, and that's what I tell people Like I don't, I don't know, but I don't have all the answers. Right, you might be afraid. Are you so afraid that you're unwilling to find out that there's a different possibility for you? If you, I don't. I don't have a belief that everybody needs to change or people need to think like me. I'm not a cult leader, I'm a therapist, right? Like, if you call me and you're paying money to me, I'm not going to waste your time or your money. So I'm going to ask you hard questions because I think that that is respectful of your time and your resources, right, but I'm not under any belief that everybody has to change. Is you change?
Speaker 1:If you want to, you go down this road of exploration and curiosity and expansion if you want to. Right, consent starts. If we're going to talk about sex and sensuality and sexuality and intimacy and full expression, that's also a conversation about consent. Right Now, I can't have a conversation with you about engaging in an expansive experience that is rooted and grounded in consent if we don't have consent. Right, and so you and I have to have consent to even be doing this work, and if you don't want to do it, you do not have to. But when people are saying, well, what if I'm not met, or what if my partner doesn't want to, are saying, well, what if I'm not met, or what if my partner doesn't want to, and so why should I even?
Speaker 3:bother.
Speaker 1:I'm saying are you willing to do that for the next 10, 20, 30, 40,?
Speaker 3:50?.
Speaker 1:It's up to you, but are you willing to not know? Are you willing to never know? This is what it is right now. This is the tension and the discomfort that you're sitting in. Are you willing to never know? This is what it is right now. This is the tension and the discomfort that you're sitting in. Are you willing to do that for another one year, let alone five, let alone 10? If you're willing to not know, if the fear is that big, right. Personally, I'm more afraid of not trying, but that's me. I'm more afraid of not being curious. I'm more afraid of what happens when we are so depleted and just dried out and uninspired because we didn't go for it. We didn't even get curious enough to look in. That is terrifying to me. A life that is not lubricated, that is not inspired yes ma'am like that.
Speaker 1:What are we doing? What do we do? We're just stuck. I that is terrifying to me, but that's my personal shit that has no room in the therapy space. So I just ask people well, if, if that, if the fear is that big, then we shouldn't do it. But if you change your mind, I'm gonna be here yeah, yeah what if you do it and it's better? What if you go after? What if you say the thing and your life gets better? Are you willing to not take that chance?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:What if you ask for something and your lover says hell yeah, I've been thinking about that too. What if you ask for something and they're like hell yeah. Why didn't you tell me five years ago?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Can you give us a scenario of no, no, yes, you tell me, I'll try. I'll try, I'll try to do. You know it's hard. I know You're messing with me, joshua, because I am a therapist. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2:You're a whole ass therapist.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, hip hop, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I'm, and I'm again Like, again, no names, but just a simulation of what someone can connect with when they're thinking about okay, wait a minute, she's talking about asking for things. I'm in a relationship already. I have desires, I want to do things. I won't even voice them because that may, I'm afraid, right, and I'm afraid of hurting someone. I'm afraid of hurting someone, I'm afraid of losing something, I'm afraid of reorganizing my life because change is scary.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to give you an example, because this, these folks, I didn't work. I saw them one time, okay, and so they probably don't even remember me.
Speaker 2:You're not talking about Beyonce and Jay-Z. No, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:And jay-z no, no, no, I can't, I can't tell you. Yeah, but this was really awesome. Um, okay, one night fall evening saw these folks came in I won't say where, right. They came in and we were just doing a consult, right, and some therapists they'll do like 15 minute phone consult stuff like that. I never do that because it doesn't give me a good sense of whether or not I can be helpful. So when I'm doing a consult, I do a full session with people right and what they wrote in the email.
Speaker 1:I had a sense of how I wanted to get a sense of what they were up to and what was going on for them. What they wrote in the email I had a sense of how I wanted to get a sense of what they were up to and what was going on for them. What they wrote in the email introducing themselves to me. So they come in and they've been having this mismatch. They've been having this, this. They just can't connect. But they really love each other. They have a desire they're thinking about like deepening their partnership, like having kids. You know they live together already.
Speaker 1:They've been together like a good while, like more than five years, right, but they're thinking about having a more formal commitment to each other. They're thinking about, you know, maybe building a family together. They were like, you know, I just there are things that I want. I don't know how to tell you, I don't want to offend you and I was like you know, here's some butcher paper right. And then at the time I had a space with big glass windows so I could just put your paper up right, gave them two markers, and I was like you, go over there, write down all the things you want, the things you haven't said. You go over there, you write down all the things you haven't said and they wrote each. I think they maybe wrote between seven and ten. I forgot what instruction this was like, probably now eight years ago.
Speaker 1:So I forget how many I told them to write down, but if there were five that they wrote down, they matched four. They wanted the same things, right, they wanted to explore kink. They wanted to go to play parties. They wanted to be a little bit more sexually expressive in the home, not changing clothes and different rooms and not showing their bodies. They were just feeling very coy and very like closed off and they were scared that if they said you know, I really I have this kink, I want to play a little and this is like really light. This was like super vanilla, like this is like a tuesday for me. The stuff that people ask for in my office is like nothing like what these folks and they were like, so like worried that they say I want you to like sometime and I'm like this is like a right.
Speaker 1:This is a regular tuesday afternoon. They can tie you up now. I'll leave you like it's fine and so.
Speaker 1:But they, they matched they. They just never said the things to each other, right? And when they looked across, right, and I was like, oh, go read. And they went across the room and read the relief, they did not need therapy, they just the relief that washed over their face because they were so afraid that they were going to offend each other that they never said a word. Trying to build this whole life, talking about making whole humans together. But they couldn't say I would like you to get some rope and tie me up sometimes, couldn't say that to each other. And why? For what? It didn't offend nobody, right? But I know why people feel afraid I'm gonna offend you. You're gonna think I'm weird yeah and it was the furthest.
Speaker 1:Nothing on their list was weird by any way, shape or form. Right and the utter like immediate exhale in that room when they looked at each other's lists. They went to corners, they didn't look, they wrote it, whipped their backs to each other and looked calm. Those people did not need therapy. They did not need to sit and philosophize about their mother wounds.
Speaker 3:For five years they could talk and say this is what I want from you, and so that's.
Speaker 1:that's an example I feel comfortable giving, because it's not like long-term folks. I was working with you know, but it really was that simple. It was not some deep philosophical thing. It was that they felt like they couldn't say it because they were going to offend the other right or the thing that they were asking for was too taboo or strange, and that's to each their own. Nothing surprises me, but I'm me, and so for them it was a big deal to say. I want you to tie me up.
Speaker 1:If we were going to work together more. We could have unpacked that Like that would for some people. They have to also get around their own. I want this and I don't know why I want this Right, but that wasn't what was meant for us to do. My job was done when they looked across at each other and were like oh cool, let's go do that now. Problem solved.
Speaker 2:I think what you're talking about is this performative culture that we have, and we talked about this even in our sessions, and I want to pull from our time together that we've had and for as brief as you can, but also without the important details here what does it mean to be kind of in this patriarchy society, this patriarchal society, and have these rules and dogmas that would lead to someone not even being able to express hey, tie me up every now and then?
Speaker 2:not even be able to voice that. Like we get to be, we get to talk about a lot of things go after our dreams when it comes to business, and you know careers and you know education, but when it comes to like advocating for what you want sexually, somehow, that is like I'm not gonna say the worst thing ever, but it's very uncomfortable, um, for people to to go in that space. And what I'm pointing it to is I was curious if you can reconcile why that what that is for us Americans maybe specifically Black Americans, but just people in general and the impact that our society, our patriarchal society, has in influencing what we get to talk about, what we want to say um or not. Why is that such a burden for us?
Speaker 1:I think I think you could should answer right, but I'll just start it saying that yeah it is, do you think black folks are going to be like, yeah, I want to get tied up, given what happened for 500 years?
Speaker 2:uh, I don't know. I don't even know if we're awake, I don't even know if there's an aware Right, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:It's not conscious. Yeah, Intergenerational trauma is very it's not conscious. But if you think about a shutter when we have 400 years of lynching, to say I want you to tie me up. It's going to bring a shudder in the body and it's going to feel strange, right, if you're a Christian.
Speaker 1:and you look at Christ. It's a hat up hanging and you're like, yeah, do that to me, to me, right, like it's. Like it's awkward, it's uncomfortable for people. They're like wait, why do I want? What is? How did this happen? How do I, how do I have that inside of me? Right?
Speaker 1:I actually want somebody to tie me up, and if you look at the posture it looks, like right, like there's these things that and it's not conscious, I'm not saying most of this is not conscious, right, but that doesn't mean that somewhere in your soma you are feeling the tension of why do I want this thing that looks and mimics so closely this other thing that was deeply horrific and devastating, whether it's the death of Christ or the death of millions of my ancestors, or so on? Right, like, look in, look in the culture, look what you're mimicking, because there's different things in different cultures, right, and so you tell me what, what comes up for you, asking that question like what, what, what are?
Speaker 3:some of the because I can.
Speaker 1:I can tell you tons, but I think this is one of those things where you notice, where you feel pushed up against that tension.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. Well, obviously, you know I grew up very religious, you know church of God and Christ, very conservative and very black, and I knew I was going to be a good kid if I didn't drink, smoke or have sex or have sex before marriage. I was like, and you know, limit the world of music you're listening to, cause that can influence you too.
Speaker 2:And so I, I grew up your, your, your words around disassociated and repressed and disconnected from what do I want in my body. How do I access that to express my authentic self in that moment? A lot of practice in not doing that, and so when I hear you speak about advocating for without judgment, essentially who you are and a part of who you are is who you are sexually.
Speaker 2:Stuff gets in the way of that and it's and it's and it's rules and God, is all this stuff Right?
Speaker 2:And then it's well, who I am no longer is good enough.
Speaker 2:So now I have to find ways to perform and shut parts of me off, because desiring that, desiring more than what I currently am experiencing, is shamed or guilted or what's my family going to think Like, all this stuff comes up to keep us very narrow and small, for, you know, conforming to what it is that we're supposed to be, whatever that's supposed to be is in doing.
Speaker 2:And you know, I think also, I, you know, I watch people get married every weekend, I DJ and I just, I wonder, wonder, especially after working with you, and this might lead to our next question, but I'll stop there, because what's also coming up is what should or not should, what would be a constructive way to build guidelines before we venture off into long-term partnerships that, based on your work, you're like. You know what I see, what we experienced in this society we get partnered people get divorced people, cheat people, this people, that. But based on even this conversation conversation, it's all in response to man. I'm just trying to fucking express myself before I get judged for it, and now I have to do a lot of stuff in the shadows because I can't be me because I'm out here trying to be good.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna pull us back to the three things please, yeah, yes, ma'am, I'm gonna pull us back to what's the three things I told you you were going to be a good boy.
Speaker 2:That if I didn't drink, smoke or have sex, yeah, how many of those things are fun. Oh they're. You know they're a blast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how many of those things help you just know your humanity more yeah oh yeah all.
Speaker 2:Just know your humanity more. Yeah, oh yeah, All of them.
Speaker 1:Right. And so, if you're asking me, I'm not saying smoking is good for you, but it is fun, right? I'm not saying drinking in excess is good for your liver or kidneys, but it does help you deal with social anxiety. It does help you lower your inhibitions. It does help you to figure out if I'm not afraid what else is available to me.
Speaker 1:And so if I tell you you can't do anything, that is your body trying to figure out what it wants and needs and what feels good to it. If I tell you you have to be good, you can't feel good. What did I do to you? What did I reenact for you? You got to be good, but you can't feel good. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what comes up for me is you're separating. You've broke me. You've broke me, you've broke me.
Speaker 1:I intentionally disassociated you from your body, I've intentionally disrupted you from your humanity.
Speaker 1:We are animals. We have animal drives. The back of your brain is called the id. It's your animal drive, right? Humans have primal instincts. Sex is one of them, right? Whether it is for desire, whether it is for spiritual expression, whether it is for play and recreation, whether or not it is for procreation back of your brain, animal drives. Sex is going to win, no matter what you do.
Speaker 1:You cannot control it. We are a species that's still here because we have sex. We are a species that communicates through putting our bodies on other bodies. We are a species that has a whole limbic system, an attachment system that helps us wire ourselves to other human beings. You cannot bypass it and you cannot control it.
Speaker 1:But people try to control it by separating you from your core primal human instincts and they tell you be good, don't feel good. Right. And if I tell you to be good and don't feel good, you are going to be compliant because you're going to be preoccupied with what it means to be good. But what you're not going to be is content and fulfilled and embodied, and I think that that is a crime. Mm hmm, be is content and fulfilled and embodied, and I think that that is a crime. And if you're talking to me and you're curious about, well, what's the framework, if people are partnering, then do not partner and make commitments before you've had a conversation about the some of the stuff that we're talking about.
Speaker 1:What is fulfilling to you? What are your desires? What's the thing that you haven't told me that you really want? Let me make sure that I can participate in your fulfillment in life, not participate in you being controlled by me or because we're married. These are the new rules and we're just going to pick up another set of rules that are dehumanizing. No, what are the agreements that we want to make to each other about how to make sure that we're growing together and we're fulfilling each other, that we can pour that level of embodiment and fulfillment and excitement and zest and like vitality into our children?
Speaker 1:If we choose to have, if we're not having those conversations, we should not make no commitments because we don't even know what the fuck we're committing to. Am I committing to looking at you with contempt and resentment for the rest of my life Because I thought I was going to be happy because you put a ring on my finger and sign a piece of paper with no. That's silly and oppressive. Let's not do that. Let's have some real talk about what we want. What does a fulfilling life look like and mean to you? What does that look like? How do you know? How do we know we're doing well? What are the markers that we are fulfilling the commitments we're making to each other? Because it's going to get hard.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's going to get hard. Bodies are going to change right. It's going to be all roses. The honeymoon period is going to end. It's going to get hard. How do we agree that we're going to say hard things to each other? Going to get hard. How do we agree that we're going to say hard things to each other? How do I tell you something really hard on a really bad day and trust that you're gonna sit and listen and still be there after I tell you? Those are the conversations you want to have, right? Not? Oh, we're gonna have a party. Do the electric slide?
Speaker 1:yeah place, while I meant they 17 times, and then we don't go have a good life. No, have those hard conversations so that you know what you're committing to. Actually give yourself a ceremony around commitment. That is well informed, informed consent. And it starts with like what are you afraid of? Let's just go there, right? What scares you? What's the thing you haven't said, right? What do you really want? That you think it's not okay to ask me for? You might be surprised or you might get a no, and that's okay. Can you live with it, right? No, it's not the worst thing in the world I actually love that word, right, but at least you know where.
Speaker 2:I know where you stand, we know where we stand with each other yeah, yeah how do you support someone listening and what we're saying sounds simple but not easy it is.
Speaker 1:It is very, very like, simple, philosophically right the way I way I think about.
Speaker 1:I'm like, yeah, this behavior in your body, even me, even me I I am rehearsed, I do this all day long with people. I do this. I don't ever instruct people to do things that I have not actually like had to be brought to my knees because I was so afraid to do it like I don't. I'm not that kind of clinician and so I'm not going to tell you something from a book and I don't have any felt sense of what it's like to actually do it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, theoretically, philosophically, some of it, not all of it, yeah but to feel all the sensations in your body before you say the words. That takes practice, that takes time. You have to actually process the ways that you will go into shock and actually feel like you're not going to make it. And then, seven seconds later, 10 seconds later, 15 seconds later, and you breathe, you learn how to be in your body so that you can be fully expressed and then you can express yourself. I teach people how to be in their bodies. It's not all about changing your mind about something. It's then being with the somatic responses of that because it is terrifying. I'm not saying any of this is easy. I'm saying it's worth it.
Speaker 2:It's worth it. Now, tell me about why it's worth it. Why is it important for us, specifically in this subject matter, that we're talking about sex and advocating for? Because I think, what, what I know, even before I finish my question, practicing advocating for what you want period a great benefit. Why is this part of who we are so important to advocate for, whatever it is that you may desire or want sexually?
Speaker 1:well, because you have more empowerment in your life. Right, you're more emboldened. Right, you're not leaving your joy or fulfillment or pleasure. You're not putting that in the hands of someone else that you're then going to have and contempt for right. That's not fair to them and that's deeply unfair to you, right?
Speaker 1:Because, I make you responsible for knowing how to fulfill me when I don't even know how to fulfill me. And everything that you try because I don't know and I didn't tell you is wrong. And now we're just pissed and sitting in the house watching True Blood Like no, I am not going to set you up. I don't think it's fair to set people up like that and I don't think it's fair to set yourself up like that to give all of your power away. So when I say it's not easy, it's worth it. It's worth it because you know yourself more, right, and intimacy begets intimacy, right? So if I know myself more, I actually know how to guide you and how to help you know me more, and then we're connected, then we're really bonding and I believe that it's worth it.
Speaker 1:It is worth it to have that level of fulfillment and connection with the people that you love. That level of fulfillment and connection with the people that you love, right. And this is not just about erotic partners. This is siblings, this is family members, this is your children, all right, and we teach them how to do it, because at some point they're going to become pre-adolescents and then adolescents and then we're going to have to teach them the art of bonding right and the art of advocating for themselves and the art of having boundaries and the art of saying no and also saying yes, please, right. And how do you do that if you don't have that understanding of how to do it yourself? Because they're going to be terrified and you want to intimately know what that terror feels like and say but you're going to do it anyway because you deserve it, right. You deserve to say but you're going to do it anyway because you deserve it, right. You deserve to say no. You deserve to say yes, please, more, please, stop that now.
Speaker 1:All of that yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not easy, but worth it, ok.
Speaker 2:Therapist to the stars, if I, if I start advocating for what I want in my relationships or relationship. Well then, what if I'm advocating for something that my partner is like oh, if you, if that's what you want to do, well, I want to do this. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want you to do that, so I just won't. So, jim, we just won't do anything, or I'll do it without you knowing about what I'm trying to do. Again, this type of fear shows up if I start asking and pushing for what I want. Well, it's okay if I do it, but it's not okay if my partner does it. How do you, how do we help people like how would you support somebody with why they won't venture in for in terms of what they want, because it might open up a can of worms, it might spill over into something else that they can't control?
Speaker 1:quote, unquote well, I did say 10 minutes ago you can't control sex, right?
Speaker 3:I did say that right, I didn't say that I had to go.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, but it's okay, go back, go on the record right yes, ma'am, right one there's you have.
Speaker 1:There's a lot in that question, right, and so I love that question, even though there's a lot in it, because that's usually the way the question comes to me in real time in a session, right, and I talk with folks about being present, right, because they're like, well, if I do this, then this is going to happen, as if they know, right, you know patterns in your dynamic, but you don't know what's going to happen. When you actually have a conversation, right, and people equate the word, you know how some things we were talking about get conflated, like authenticity means that you can't change. Right For some people. Right, yeah, advocacy for some people means I'm demanding. Right, when I say advocate or advocacy or fully express or name or be brave and authentically say what you want. That's a conversation, it's not a demand. Right, it's not. You're not in a ransom, it's not a ransom, note. Right, you're not a hostage situation. You're having a conversation, right, and if you have a conversation that will change the conversation happening on the other end, right, and it might not happen flawlessly the first time, right, but if you approach it, advocacy, you can be advocating for yourself and be curious about your beloveds, right, you're not demanding, right. And you have to wait and see what happens on the other side when you shift, how you are starting and moving through that conversation.
Speaker 1:It's also not a one time thing. You know that better than anybody at this point. It's one conversation opens the door to another, to another, to another, and sometimes we have stuckness and sometimes we have to pause and sometimes we have to slow down and we have to massage something and we have to figure things out. But it's one conversation after the other and it does require that you keep being radically honest. But that does not mean you make demands.
Speaker 1:That does not mean that you bulldoze. That does not mean you are abusive. That does not mean you disrespect your beloved. You can be radically honest and deeply kind and compassionate. You can be radically honest and deeply kind and compassionate. You can be radically honest and have grace. You can be radically honest and have patience, right. And you can also be curious about and what do you want and what does that bring up for you? Let's talk about it, let's sit in the mud, because that's how we're going to get free, right? It's not that I come in with a bunch of demands and say do this, or else by tuesday right that sounds like what you do when you are holding somebody for ransom.
Speaker 1:That does not sound like I'm actually trying to have a collaborative process with you, and holding people for ransom is not sexy, for the record, so don't do that yeah as we close, there's a bunch of people out here that I know listen.
Speaker 2:I mean, even it's embedded in the title of the podcast take it off. What would you encourage people on? Their, their relationship with their sexual identity, how they embrace their sexual authenticity, the space that you hold for people regularly to be able to express and get this out. What is, why is it important for them to, or what would you encourage them to take off in pursuit of this journey of around whether it's sexual liberation or just even dealing with the feelings that come up around, shaming, guilt, around this particular topic, so they, they stay stuck, they don't move, they sit and with a lot of weight that they don't do anything about.
Speaker 1:That's really great. That's a great question. I have so many thoughts when I'm. What's coming to me, right, I'm just going to, I'm just going to go for it. Please, flow, flow, love, flow. If you feel like I need to refine it, you refine it.
Speaker 3:You're good, you're good.
Speaker 1:One thing I I'll go back to just for a moment what we were just talking about, right, and I would say, you know to take off that whole, you know that thought those dominoes that fall when you're like, but if I do this and then this is going to happen, then like, to take, take that out of the scenario right to, like you think you know things and you don't right and these preconceived notions, these, these stories, right, so much of um.
Speaker 1:What breaks down when we're trying to have a conversation about a topic that we're both familiar with that has gone bad before, like we just come in with a story that is always gonna be bad and it's always gonna end up shitty, or we're gonna fight, like you have to divorce yourself from those stories and actually create a space where there's the possibility for something new. And that is a choice. You do have a. You can make that choice that I'm gonna take off all these other stories and all these narratives that I think I know how this is going to go and I'm actually going to try something different, right, and so there's that piece I think is really important. The other thing is like to really practice, and this is easier said than done.
Speaker 1:This is why people hire therapists and somatic coaches and spiritual workers whoever they want to hire coaches, right, to help them come out of all of that guilt and shame about being a human being. You have normal, regular-ass human desire. Can we live with it? Can we learn how to live with that and be in the body with that, so that really uncoupling and untangling and just letting yourself be wild We've been talking about. You don't have to be good.
Speaker 3:You have to be honest, you have to be good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have to be honest, you have to be real, you have to be in your bones, in your skin, in your personhood. You don't have to be good Right, because being good sometimes doesn't feel good, because it's asking us to not be human Right.
Speaker 3:Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1:And so what does it look like to? Of course course, right, we want to be good people. Right, but being a good people means being a good people to yourself and honoring yourself, and then you can be good to the people in your life. I'm just being performative, performatively good, like I'm just playing, I'm cosplaying good. That's not good. That's gonna make you miserable and resentful and give you migraines. It's gonna kill the libido as well.
Speaker 1:So don't do that and so those are some of the things that I would say, like you may have to divorce yourself from all the things you think you know, to make a space right to some other things, to see things from some different perspectives and they may not all be for you, right, but do a little research, right, actually, try to know something else. Right, actually, listen to other people talking about their lives. Right, don't just talk to that same echo chamber, right, actually, try and diversify what else is out there to learn about the art of relating right and see what happens. You might be surprised.
Speaker 1:And if all else fails. Ask yourself the level of discomfort I have right now. Am I willing to be with this? And it will likely get worse for the next five years. Don't even go way out. Can I do this for five more years With the almost guarantee that it's going to get worse?
Speaker 2:You're speaking about relationship dynamics with.
Speaker 1:That are uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that are uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:The level of discomfort that I'm sitting in, whether it's when I say relationship, I'm talking about people to people, but I'm also talking about with yourself with yourself.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good, you are your primary partner. Discomfort because I'm hiding this thing that is deeply and profoundly important to me, about what I want, what I dream about, what important to me. About what I want, what I dream about, what I fantasize about, what I desire, whatever it is right Sexual sexuality, erotically, sensually, professionally, personally, gender wise right, whatever it is. I don't know, because everybody's right, but am I willing to just sit with this in a pressure cooker for five more years, knowing at some point it's going to blow up in my face?
Speaker 2:It's going to blow up.
Speaker 1:Am I willing to do that?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If the answer is no, then find someone that you really connect with, that you trust, that you can build trust with. I should say that you connect with. That can help you. Just put a flashlight on and look around. You don't have to change shit, right, but at least somebody that will put a flashlight on with you, you know, like stand beside you and walk you around and just look around a little bit. I think that is a brilliant start. At least be willing to know yourself more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you say something that I often use the analogy of a museum. Like we're just going to go walk through your museum, we don't have to change out the exhibits. There's parts of this museum that you have off limit to the public and it's and it's been off limits to you and we don't know what's there until we just go look at it. We have to change it. I mean, again, that's embedded in our, our title go see it, don't change it. Go see it, go look at it, be curious about it and then love what you see. And if you decide to change and grow from that, great. But I 100 percent understand what you mean by just getting familiar with what your art gallery has in it, and some of the art might not be a true representation of where you are today.
Speaker 1:It might have been, it might have been true 10 years ago. You are allowed to change that's authentic. You are allowed.
Speaker 3:That's authentic. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1:We don't we. We, I love the museum. We don't even talk about it. In when I'm doing indigenous practices, like the indigenous philosophy, we don't even talk about it. Like loving or not loving something, right, it's all it's. It's all you. What's there? What's what's not to love? Right, but you may have changed, right, you may have a fault and some of it might be deeply painful and grief-stricken. What you find in there, if we we talk about it more, uh, sometimes like a cave, like we're in the cave together right and we went underground together.
Speaker 1:We're just you know, in the cloisters, in the, in the, in the, in the underground, like we're just kind of going around to see what's what, and you might find that there's grief in there, you might find pain that you might find a memory or repressed something, and it might not be the finest moment for you, but what does it mean to love that too? Yeah, yeah not loving it. It's about being in relationship with it yeah, um in in in good company with it right?
Speaker 1:and find somebody that you really can build trust with, that can help you look around in there. You know it, you might find some hell in there, right. So make sure you get somebody that'll go to hell with you, right, and look around in there too, right, somebody will go to hell with you and be like, it's cool, come on, we're going to go to hell and see what's in there, right. See if we can clean that up. It's a little, it's a little hot, a little hot in there, but I could go. I'm not, I'm not scared of that, yeah. So I'll go in front and we'll we'll look it out, we'll look at it. We'll, kind of you know, uncover unearth like we'll, we'll dig through that. You don't have to just sit in silence and suffering and sit in an oppression that was not meant for your life, right? That's a story about how we got over here. That's not actually who we are, right?
Speaker 1:And we put that every single fucking day when we wake up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:We do it every day. Why wouldn't we give that same level of devotion to our erotic space?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We're told it's bad. It means you're a pervert. No, yeah, yeah really stuck yeah I know we probably went a little like no, you're good, we're good.
Speaker 2:We just let that happen, we just let that be shanique, how? How do people find you? Are you someone that you desire to be found?
Speaker 1:what are you at? I love to found, but also I'm an Aquarius, so that's that was a lie, but you know I love to be found. Yeah no, I, I love to be found. I really people. I'm not a social media person, but I have an Instagram page and sometimes people message me through there. I have a website so that people can read a little bit about my work. It totally needs to be updated, but I am in. Phd school, and so that's you know. I'll do that later.
Speaker 2:You're in what school?
Speaker 1:I'm in PhD school. I'm finishing PhD school. Remember I wrote it.
Speaker 2:Yes, man, that's right. Yeah, dr Anderson, coming soon.
Speaker 1:Coming soon. Soon come Right. And so you know people can read a little bit about. You know some of the work that I do. That will be updated on my website at Shaniqua Anderson dot com. People can email me at S Anderson LMSW at Gmail dot com. That's L like Larry and like Mary S S Shaniqua W working at gmailcom. And yeah, they can. I think those are the best ways to find me for now, but I'm not on Instagram posting a whole bunch of stuff. That's not I'm busy.
Speaker 1:But you can find me, I am findable.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, well, that's good, that's good's good, I'll put, and folks you might not have wrote all that down, it'll be in the show notes so you don't have to worry about that. I got your back on that. Well, with all that said, what a miraculous, transformative and just thoughtful discussion about a topic that I think gets obviously. When you talk about social media, you know it gets perverted, it gets misunderstood often, and to have just a clear, philosophical, academic view of it but still landed in our real life experience is very, very regulated.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I really appreciate like having these kinds of conversations from a place that's not reductive, you know, it's like expansive, and the way that you invite a conversation about what will help, right Like, what will open this up, what will help, what will create space. I think that the reason that you and I have the kind of connection we do is because align with like. But how do we make this be more easeful and and better, right like? It's about improvement, not about like.
Speaker 1:Well, this is what you have to do, right it's like a conversation about being curious about the self right, not a conversation about well, here, here is the list of instructions on what you need to do, and then you'll be fine. Right, it's not small. I love the way that it feels open and and more we started a conversation. Other people can chime in and add 100 percent that's true 100 percent, yeah, and we don't.
Speaker 2:You don't have to agree with everything we say. I do want you to be challenged and look and look at this mirror and see what you might not be paying attention to, because we're designed not to see ourselves.
Speaker 2:We have to have the tools of the community to hold up and say yep, I have a version of me and the rest of me isn't who I surround myself with. That can mirror back like ah wait, a minute, blind spot, think about this. So very appropriate that we have created an amplified um way to normalize and really humanize who we are. I love that. Being human is what we is, what we're meant to be yeah, I just want people to.
Speaker 1:If you feel good and you're joyful, you're creative, you are offering so much to the world, the world yeah has things to offer you and you should. You should feel good as often as humanly possible. So that's my, that's a perfect place to spot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're going to pause right there. Feel good as most as humanly possible.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, all day long. That's what's up.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much love for joining me and my community and uh and I didn't book, and I didn't book my next appointment too. So we're good there too.
Speaker 1:I'm good, I didn't do what.
Speaker 3:I needed to do, you did what you needed to do. Expedition yes, ma'am, and I appreciate it, there it is.
Speaker 1:Thank you to your community for having me, for inviting me into your territory and into your space. Thank you, joshua, for being a delightful host. I really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
